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	<title>Comments on: The 2008 evangelical vote: A retrospective</title>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-27068</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-27068</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Josh&lt;/strong&gt;: Thanks for the links, man. I&#039;ll check &#039;em out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Josh</strong>: Thanks for the links, man. I&#8217;ll check &#8216;em out.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-27055</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-27055</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to step outside of the current conversation and recommend another source for data about evangelicals and this elections. While it was based on a pre-election survey (data on their website &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1204/survey.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;), last week&#039;s (10/31) broadcast of Religion &amp; Ethics Newsweekly was a great insight into the young evangelical vote. You can see the video and transcript &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1209/cover.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; or check out their video or audio podcast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to step outside of the current conversation and recommend another source for data about evangelicals and this elections. While it was based on a pre-election survey (data on their website <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1204/survey.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>), last week&#8217;s (10/31) broadcast of Religion &amp; Ethics Newsweekly was a great insight into the young evangelical vote. You can see the video and transcript <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1209/cover.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> or check out their video or audio podcast.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8230;new links&#8230; &#171; Community of the Risen</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-27042</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8230;new links&#8230; &#171; Community of the Risen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-27042</guid>
		<description>[...] Jake has some good analysis of the evangelical vote in the 08 race. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Saudi Arabia in the New York [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jake has some good analysis of the evangelical vote in the 08 race. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Saudi Arabia in the New York [...]</p>
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		<title>By: adam mclane</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-26948</link>
		<dc:creator>adam mclane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-26948</guid>
		<description>Shane- Just the reality of politics here. The hardcore conservative Bush didn&#039;t win the hearts of Americans at large. And while many people, including myself, think he represented evangelicalism quite well in the Oval Office... the pendulum was going to swing as it always does. We went from 8 years of a moderate Clinton to the far right of Bush. Now we&#039;re swinging to the far left with Obama.

As for your comment about the trends... I don&#039;t know your network of friends, but my tribe is pretty diverse. I maintain this as a fact... I don&#039;t know a single person who was a hardcore McCain supporter while I know tons and tons of evangelicals who HUGELY support Obama. 

The age of the one-issue evangelical vote has come and gone. We care about more than abortion. 

And, like you alluded to, Huckabee was the obvious evangelical choice but the chances of him winning were 0% in 2008. My firm belief is that the Republicans put McCain up as a sacrificial lamb in full knowledge that:
a. They had to nominate him at some point, even if he wasn&#039;t electable.
b. It didn&#039;t matter who they put up, it was a democratic year. 

I long to see evangelicals going to the polls representing issues beyond abortion. If GW Bush couldn&#039;t move that issue, it&#039;s time for a new approach. 

I, for one, believe in the sovereignty of God over our own desires. It&#039;s my prayer that evangelical leaders yield their support to the man who won an overwhelming majority on election day. Further, I hope we retire people like Jim Dobson. Their age of political influence has passed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shane- Just the reality of politics here. The hardcore conservative Bush didn&#8217;t win the hearts of Americans at large. And while many people, including myself, think he represented evangelicalism quite well in the Oval Office&#8230; the pendulum was going to swing as it always does. We went from 8 years of a moderate Clinton to the far right of Bush. Now we&#8217;re swinging to the far left with Obama.</p>
<p>As for your comment about the trends&#8230; I don&#8217;t know your network of friends, but my tribe is pretty diverse. I maintain this as a fact&#8230; I don&#8217;t know a single person who was a hardcore McCain supporter while I know tons and tons of evangelicals who HUGELY support Obama. </p>
<p>The age of the one-issue evangelical vote has come and gone. We care about more than abortion. </p>
<p>And, like you alluded to, Huckabee was the obvious evangelical choice but the chances of him winning were 0% in 2008. My firm belief is that the Republicans put McCain up as a sacrificial lamb in full knowledge that:<br />
a. They had to nominate him at some point, even if he wasn&#8217;t electable.<br />
b. It didn&#8217;t matter who they put up, it was a democratic year. </p>
<p>I long to see evangelicals going to the polls representing issues beyond abortion. If GW Bush couldn&#8217;t move that issue, it&#8217;s time for a new approach. </p>
<p>I, for one, believe in the sovereignty of God over our own desires. It&#8217;s my prayer that evangelical leaders yield their support to the man who won an overwhelming majority on election day. Further, I hope we retire people like Jim Dobson. Their age of political influence has passed.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-26938</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 01:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-26938</guid>
		<description>Jake,

I don&#039;t doubt there has been horrible e-mails that has gone out (I&#039;ve received a few).

You certainly know your church better than I do.  I shouldn&#039;t have said that statement was ridiculous.

The comments rubbed me the wrong way, but I should have been tempered in my response.

So I apologize, and I hope that you can forgive me.

Adam, I&#039;m not denying that there are evangelicals who supported Obama, or there are evangelicals who do not care about those outside of their own community.

I also don&#039;t deny that Obama had a solid win among the electorate.  He campaigned well, he had a message that resonated and circumstances that worked in his favor.

But what you shouldn&#039;t do is assume trend by your own personal experience.  Regarding McCain, for many evangelicals who are conservative he was not the first choice (I was originally a Huckabee supporter), so he didn&#039;t inspire the type of excitement that Obama supporters showed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t doubt there has been horrible e-mails that has gone out (I&#8217;ve received a few).</p>
<p>You certainly know your church better than I do.  I shouldn&#8217;t have said that statement was ridiculous.</p>
<p>The comments rubbed me the wrong way, but I should have been tempered in my response.</p>
<p>So I apologize, and I hope that you can forgive me.</p>
<p>Adam, I&#8217;m not denying that there are evangelicals who supported Obama, or there are evangelicals who do not care about those outside of their own community.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t deny that Obama had a solid win among the electorate.  He campaigned well, he had a message that resonated and circumstances that worked in his favor.</p>
<p>But what you shouldn&#8217;t do is assume trend by your own personal experience.  Regarding McCain, for many evangelicals who are conservative he was not the first choice (I was originally a Huckabee supporter), so he didn&#8217;t inspire the type of excitement that Obama supporters showed.</p>
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		<title>By: adam mclane</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-26932</link>
		<dc:creator>adam mclane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-26932</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll respond a little bit more later on the detail. But I just want to state again. I do not know a single person in my circle (you can argue the size of which if you&#039;d like) who was an ardent supporter of John McCain. The flip side is I know tons of people who supported Obama financially and giving of their time to campaign. 

My statement is generalizing. Trends are, of course, general statements. To point out 1 or 2 exceptions to that as proof that a generality is untrue is misinterpreting the term &quot;generalization.&quot;

Not to bash on republicans at all, as this was my first election of voting for a democrat... the nation spoke loud and clearly on Tuesday. The electoral college was clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll respond a little bit more later on the detail. But I just want to state again. I do not know a single person in my circle (you can argue the size of which if you&#8217;d like) who was an ardent supporter of John McCain. The flip side is I know tons of people who supported Obama financially and giving of their time to campaign. </p>
<p>My statement is generalizing. Trends are, of course, general statements. To point out 1 or 2 exceptions to that as proof that a generality is untrue is misinterpreting the term &#8220;generalization.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not to bash on republicans at all, as this was my first election of voting for a democrat&#8230; the nation spoke loud and clearly on Tuesday. The electoral college was clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-26929</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-26929</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Shane&lt;/strong&gt;: Thanks for weighing in.

You took my comment out of context and/or misinterpreted me. In responding to Adam, I was speaking from my actual personal experience, which I did not translate to a generality about McCain supporters. I actually received some of the emails circulating around members from my church -- one of which equated Obama to Hitler. Moreover, I have spoken with members of my church who were convinced that nothing worse could happen than the election of Obama. So my contention is NOT ridiculous -- it&#039;s based on my lived experience among my community.

Again, I&#039;m not jumping from my localized experience to generalities about McCain supporters and/or the GOP. I have no doubt that many, many people (evangelicals included) voted for McCain for reasons beyond abortion. To deny that fact would be near-sighted and incompetent on my part.

I know you and I disagree on some things, but let&#039;s keep it amicable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Shane</strong>: Thanks for weighing in.</p>
<p>You took my comment out of context and/or misinterpreted me. In responding to Adam, I was speaking from my actual personal experience, which I did not translate to a generality about McCain supporters. I actually received some of the emails circulating around members from my church &#8212; one of which equated Obama to Hitler. Moreover, I have spoken with members of my church who were convinced that nothing worse could happen than the election of Obama. So my contention is NOT ridiculous &#8212; it&#8217;s based on my lived experience among my community.</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not jumping from my localized experience to generalities about McCain supporters and/or the GOP. I have no doubt that many, many people (evangelicals included) voted for McCain for reasons beyond abortion. To deny that fact would be near-sighted and incompetent on my part.</p>
<p>I know you and I disagree on some things, but let&#8217;s keep it amicable.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-26927</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-26927</guid>
		<description>Jake and Adam - you both need to expand your circles evidently.  When over 70% of evangelicals voted for McCain it tells me that you only talk to people you agree with.

I know plenty of people on both sides, and most have very thoughtful reasons for supporting the candidates they did.  I supported McCain, but no Jake it wasn&#039;t because of some dumb e-mail declaring him to be a Muslim.  It wasn&#039;t because  of fear.  It wasn&#039;t because I&#039;m racist (which I&#039;m not).  It was because I disagreed with his policies, and I was much closer to McCain than I was with Obama.  Jake your contention that people who voted for McCain at your church did so based on &quot;dumb lies&quot; (which by the way I found any critique of Obama was considered to be a dumb lie) is just absolutely ridiculous.

Sonja is right that the GOP has some soul-searching to do, but it isn&#039;t because of the content of our ideas.  It was because they were largely abandoned by those in Congress and President Bush.  By the way, Sonja, as a conservative I cringed over the bailout bill as well.  I&#039;m not happy that President Bush signed it into law, and wasn&#039;t happy that Senator McCain voted for it.

Adam, your characterization about older or conservative evangelicals is just plain offensive and untrue.  I&#039;m conservative, and guess what?  I work with poor families and high-risk kids!  Most of my volunteers... guess what?  They are older conservative evangelicals.  I have a hard time getting younger volunteers because they are &quot;too busy.&quot;

Many conservative evangelicals that I know care deeply about loving their neighbor.  So I would say that your comment is at best naive or worse disingenuous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake and Adam &#8211; you both need to expand your circles evidently.  When over 70% of evangelicals voted for McCain it tells me that you only talk to people you agree with.</p>
<p>I know plenty of people on both sides, and most have very thoughtful reasons for supporting the candidates they did.  I supported McCain, but no Jake it wasn&#8217;t because of some dumb e-mail declaring him to be a Muslim.  It wasn&#8217;t because  of fear.  It wasn&#8217;t because I&#8217;m racist (which I&#8217;m not).  It was because I disagreed with his policies, and I was much closer to McCain than I was with Obama.  Jake your contention that people who voted for McCain at your church did so based on &#8220;dumb lies&#8221; (which by the way I found any critique of Obama was considered to be a dumb lie) is just absolutely ridiculous.</p>
<p>Sonja is right that the GOP has some soul-searching to do, but it isn&#8217;t because of the content of our ideas.  It was because they were largely abandoned by those in Congress and President Bush.  By the way, Sonja, as a conservative I cringed over the bailout bill as well.  I&#8217;m not happy that President Bush signed it into law, and wasn&#8217;t happy that Senator McCain voted for it.</p>
<p>Adam, your characterization about older or conservative evangelicals is just plain offensive and untrue.  I&#8217;m conservative, and guess what?  I work with poor families and high-risk kids!  Most of my volunteers&#8230; guess what?  They are older conservative evangelicals.  I have a hard time getting younger volunteers because they are &#8220;too busy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Many conservative evangelicals that I know care deeply about loving their neighbor.  So I would say that your comment is at best naive or worse disingenuous.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-26922</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-26922</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Adam&lt;/strong&gt;: I don&#039;t personally know anybody who donated or got involved in the McCain campaign either. I am pretty sure there were people at my church who voted for McCain based simply on dumb lies perpetuated by mass-forwarded emails. We&#039;ll do anything if we&#039;re scared enough, I guess.

&lt;strong&gt;Sonja&lt;/strong&gt;: The homogeneity is a huge deal for me as well. I love the diversity that the Obama campaign represents. And you&#039;re right... the GOP has some soul-searching to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Adam</strong>: I don&#8217;t personally know anybody who donated or got involved in the McCain campaign either. I am pretty sure there were people at my church who voted for McCain based simply on dumb lies perpetuated by mass-forwarded emails. We&#8217;ll do anything if we&#8217;re scared enough, I guess.</p>
<p><strong>Sonja</strong>: The homogeneity is a huge deal for me as well. I love the diversity that the Obama campaign represents. And you&#8217;re right&#8230; the GOP has some soul-searching to do.</p>
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		<title>By: adam mclane</title>
		<link>http://www.jakebouma.com/2008/11/06/the-2008-evangelical-vote-a-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-26911</link>
		<dc:creator>adam mclane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jakebouma.com/?p=720#comment-26911</guid>
		<description>I crack up every time I hear that Obama is a socialist. It&#039;s as if they don&#039;t even read the papers. Did they not know that a Republican president just pushed Congress to buy our banking and mortgage industry. the federal gov&#039;t now owns most loans in our country (mortgage, personal, and school) and people want to blame a man who hasn&#039;t even taken office! It&#039;s as if they don&#039;t even see that the real socialist is the dude already living in the White House. 

What I saw, and what sickened me, was the fear-mongering. Christians disowning Obama. I just can&#039;t wait for him to be wildly popular and wildly successful so more and more evangelicals can say, &quot;James Dobson doesn&#039;t speak for me.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I crack up every time I hear that Obama is a socialist. It&#8217;s as if they don&#8217;t even read the papers. Did they not know that a Republican president just pushed Congress to buy our banking and mortgage industry. the federal gov&#8217;t now owns most loans in our country (mortgage, personal, and school) and people want to blame a man who hasn&#8217;t even taken office! It&#8217;s as if they don&#8217;t even see that the real socialist is the dude already living in the White House. </p>
<p>What I saw, and what sickened me, was the fear-mongering. Christians disowning Obama. I just can&#8217;t wait for him to be wildly popular and wildly successful so more and more evangelicals can say, &#8220;James Dobson doesn&#8217;t speak for me.&#8221;</p>
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