Comments on: NYWC ‘07 Day 4: A new vision http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/ Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:02:18 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Brian http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-8212 Brian Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:17:48 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-8212 Hmmm...Ray's comments above really speaks to a division in how many of us approach the Christian faith. Some see it primarily as a religion focused on the afterlife, and others of us see it as focused on a relationship with God through Christ in the here-and-now. Jake, I'm actually posting to say how much I enjoyed reading your article on postmodern youth which I only came across when I saw the link in this posting. Some very thoughtful and helpful information there. Thanks for sharing. Hmmm…Ray’s comments above really speaks to a division in how many of us approach the Christian faith. Some see it primarily as a religion focused on the afterlife, and others of us see it as focused on a relationship with God through Christ in the here-and-now.

Jake, I’m actually posting to say how much I enjoyed reading your article on postmodern youth which I only came across when I saw the link in this posting. Some very thoughtful and helpful information there. Thanks for sharing.

]]> By: Ray http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7191 Ray Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:25:58 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7191 I have never been on this site but somehow landed on this blog through that great internet tool Google. Please dont take this wrong because I'm admitting to being on the outside looking in and I'm not in a youth group and I'm not a big fan of church and all. I'm just curious, I dont know what this Greg said at the talk but I saw your criticism about him bringing up the cross and focusing on it and whatever. After spending a few minutes on your site I've noticed something that might have been what he was getting at. I have yet to find anything about how I could be saved. I see nothing about how I could have Jesus as my Savior or how I might could find out. I see lots and lots of cool articles about stuff I dont understand. I see all sorts of pictures and comments and links to more stuff I dont understand. Personally, I dont care how "cool" or "unoffensive" a youth leader is. I'd want mine to tell me how to get to heaven and what Jesus did on the cross and then help me tell all my friends and family and so on. Apparently, it seems like knowing how to get to heaven would be a great thing and sharing it would only be logical. I've also read that Jesus Christ himself commanded his believers to share the message of salvation and teach others to do the same. Of course I could be wrong, this doesnt look like a Christian youth website so maybe it's not. In which case I understand your rejection of the death of Jesus Christ as the payment for all sin being the most important issue in any individual's life. I've found nothing on this site to make me think otherwise. But it might be on here somewhere. If it is, it's obviously not that important here though just like you mentioned. I have never been on this site but somehow landed on this blog through that great internet tool Google. Please dont take this wrong because I’m admitting to being on the outside looking in and I’m not in a youth group and I’m not a big fan of church and all. I’m just curious, I dont know what this Greg said at the talk but I saw your criticism about him bringing up the cross and focusing on it and whatever. After spending a few minutes on your site I’ve noticed something that might have been what he was getting at. I have yet to find anything about how I could be saved. I see nothing about how I could have Jesus as my Savior or how I might could find out. I see lots and lots of cool articles about stuff I dont understand. I see all sorts of pictures and comments and links to more stuff I dont understand. Personally, I dont care how “cool” or “unoffensive” a youth leader is. I’d want mine to tell me how to get to heaven and what Jesus did on the cross and then help me tell all my friends and family and so on. Apparently, it seems like knowing how to get to heaven would be a great thing and sharing it would only be logical. I’ve also read that Jesus Christ himself commanded his believers to share the message of salvation and teach others to do the same. Of course I could be wrong, this doesnt look like a Christian youth website so maybe it’s not. In which case I understand your rejection of the death of Jesus Christ as the payment for all sin being the most important issue in any individual’s life. I’ve found nothing on this site to make me think otherwise. But it might be on here somewhere. If it is, it’s obviously not that important here though just like you mentioned.

]]> By: stuart delony http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7145 stuart delony Thu, 08 Nov 2007 05:53:42 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7145 that picture is so amazingly wrong on so many levels. great job man! that picture is so amazingly wrong on so many levels. great job man!

]]> By: Carol http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7135 Carol Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:16:00 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7135 Hi Jake, You will have to tell Cindy and I about your conference highlights and the cool stuff you want to do at St. Mark. I enjoyed reading your updates. I was especially to glad learn that your current situation was good from your private consultation! Talk to you soon. Carol Hi Jake,

You will have to tell Cindy and I about your conference highlights and the cool stuff you want to do at St. Mark. I enjoyed reading your updates. I was especially to glad learn that your current situation was good from your private consultation!

Talk to you soon.

Carol

]]> By: marko http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7055 marko Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:11:09 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7055 josh, it's cool, man. I'm just discussing. maybe I misread things. jake criticized greg's talk (rightly. I did on my blog also.). you responded that that kind of thing is why you stopped coming. which is why I responded as I did about our value of heterogenaity. where jake was (or you were) commenting about small, intimate gatherings as opposed to larger gatherings, I don't see in the post or your initial commments. but, again, maybe I'm just brain dead (actually, I KNOW I'm brain dead!). that was all - I thought you were saying you stopped attending because of speakers like greg. josh, it’s cool, man. I’m just discussing. maybe I misread things. jake criticized greg’s talk (rightly. I did on my blog also.). you responded that that kind of thing is why you stopped coming. which is why I responded as I did about our value of heterogenaity. where jake was (or you were) commenting about small, intimate gatherings as opposed to larger gatherings, I don’t see in the post or your initial commments. but, again, maybe I’m just brain dead (actually, I KNOW I’m brain dead!). that was all – I thought you were saying you stopped attending because of speakers like greg.

]]> By: Jake http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7052 Jake Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:01:36 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7052 <strong>Josh</strong>: No worries... good conversation happening. Josh: No worries… good conversation happening.

]]> By: josh http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7046 josh Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:28:37 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7046 marko. i hope you didn't misunderstand me. i'm not bashing YS. in fact, i usually recommend it about once a week. an youth pastor will email me or call me and i'll tell him he needs to check out your resources or i'll recommend a particular one. i've even recommended the conference to friends. it's just not for me anymore. i hope you don't think i was bashing. i was just trying to make the connection that YS is what it is. a diverse group with different needs and wants. your point about tony j illustrates that. i was just saying for someone who is into smaller, relational things like jake's personality . . . it might not be the best fit. that's why i haven't been "back" although i still consider myself a part of the extended family. sorry if it came off otherwise. anyway . . . sorry to hijack your blog comments jake. marko. i hope you didn’t misunderstand me. i’m not bashing YS. in fact, i usually recommend it about once a week. an youth pastor will email me or call me and i’ll tell him he needs to check out your resources or i’ll recommend a particular one. i’ve even recommended the conference to friends.

it’s just not for me anymore. i hope you don’t think i was bashing. i was just trying to make the connection that YS is what it is. a diverse group with different needs and wants. your point about tony j illustrates that. i was just saying for someone who is into smaller, relational things like jake’s personality . . . it might not be the best fit. that’s why i haven’t been “back” although i still consider myself a part of the extended family.

sorry if it came off otherwise.

anyway . . . sorry to hijack your blog comments jake.

]]> By: marko http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7040 marko Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:45:55 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7040 jake -- i wasn't so much responding to your post (and your previous posts) as i was to josh's comment about why he hasn't returned. that said, i would LOVE to see you post about what you have learned or enjoyed at the event also. kenda has spoken a few times -- she did a general session last year. we love her, but she greatly limits her speaking engagements. andy root has spoken also (not mainstage, but seminars). rodger nishioka. rollie martinson. karen sloan. doug pagitt (different tribe than the others, i know) did a mainstage. brian mclaren did also, and many seminars. of course, mark yaconelli many times (and will continue to). i'm not writing this to be defensive at all -- it's actually quite frustrating to me: it's WAY easier to find speakers on the conservative end than the mainline end. and we would love to hear your suggestions. jake — i wasn’t so much responding to your post (and your previous posts) as i was to josh’s comment about why he hasn’t returned. that said, i would LOVE to see you post about what you have learned or enjoyed at the event also.

kenda has spoken a few times — she did a general session last year. we love her, but she greatly limits her speaking engagements. andy root has spoken also (not mainstage, but seminars). rodger nishioka. rollie martinson. karen sloan. doug pagitt (different tribe than the others, i know) did a mainstage. brian mclaren did also, and many seminars. of course, mark yaconelli many times (and will continue to). i’m not writing this to be defensive at all — it’s actually quite frustrating to me: it’s WAY easier to find speakers on the conservative end than the mainline end. and we would love to hear your suggestions.

]]> By: Jake http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7039 Jake Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:31:31 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7039 Wow... I woke up to more comments than I expected! <strong>Heidi</strong>: I'll post the Campolo notes as soon as I can, and as far as the production goes, I will just keep it short and say I agree with <strong>josh</strong>'s open source proposal. I know more than a few people who recorded their own audio at seminars. <strong>Josh</strong>: I agree that I am probably in the minority at this event and understand why you haven't been back. I do see value in being here, though, and that's mostly in making personal connections and - if nothing else - being exposed to and reminded of a style of youth ministry that is still very popular no matter what kinds of books I've been into lately or whatever. Overall, my frustrations and disappointments don't outweigh my joys and learnings, and that's a good thing. Let's do lunch. <strong>Marko</strong>: Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I fully understand the rationale for diversity. This particular post (sans the mp3 rant) is not meant as a bash on YS, but rather my personal reflection on my experience, which has been fantastic overall. In fact, it's probably been <em>enhanced</em> by the diversity. When I return to my next YS conference, I will bring much that I have learned this year, and I'll have an even better time than I did this year. I'm going to post some more reflections of the whole conference sometime this week, but one of the things I'll suggest is bringing in some more minority YM voices (Kenda Creasy Dean, Andrew Root, et. al.). Cheers. Wow… I woke up to more comments than I expected!

Heidi: I’ll post the Campolo notes as soon as I can, and as far as the production goes, I will just keep it short and say I agree with josh’s open source proposal. I know more than a few people who recorded their own audio at seminars.

Josh: I agree that I am probably in the minority at this event and understand why you haven’t been back. I do see value in being here, though, and that’s mostly in making personal connections and – if nothing else – being exposed to and reminded of a style of youth ministry that is still very popular no matter what kinds of books I’ve been into lately or whatever. Overall, my frustrations and disappointments don’t outweigh my joys and learnings, and that’s a good thing. Let’s do lunch.

Marko: Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I fully understand the rationale for diversity. This particular post (sans the mp3 rant) is not meant as a bash on YS, but rather my personal reflection on my experience, which has been fantastic overall. In fact, it’s probably been enhanced by the diversity. When I return to my next YS conference, I will bring much that I have learned this year, and I’ll have an even better time than I did this year. I’m going to post some more reflections of the whole conference sometime this week, but one of the things I’ll suggest is bringing in some more minority YM voices (Kenda Creasy Dean, Andrew Root, et. al.). Cheers.

]]> By: marko http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-7037 marko Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:00:30 +0000 http://www.jakebouma.com/2007/11/05/nywc-07-day-4-a-new-vision/#comment-7037 josh, sorry you had that experience and stopped attending. jake, i expect being here, you realize that our intention is to have people speak that you will disagree with. people walk out of tony jones' seminars just as often as others are frustrated with greg stier. what a boring convention it would be if we agreed with everyone and everything, and if we only hung out with people who agree with us and are from our own tribe. i also, do not agree with much of what i hear preached or taught at the convention; but i sure do love that god surprises me with truth from unexpected sources. i promise you this: ys will continue to have speakers you will not agree with. if that means josh doesn't attend, then i'm sorry for both josh and us and all the other attendees, because everyone loses by his absence and withdrawel. if that means other don't attend: bummer. bad for all of us. but not enough to homogenize our approach. plenty of other youth ministry events out there that look that way. josh, sorry you had that experience and stopped attending. jake, i expect being here, you realize that our intention is to have people speak that you will disagree with. people walk out of tony jones’ seminars just as often as others are frustrated with greg stier. what a boring convention it would be if we agreed with everyone and everything, and if we only hung out with people who agree with us and are from our own tribe. i also, do not agree with much of what i hear preached or taught at the convention; but i sure do love that god surprises me with truth from unexpected sources.

i promise you this: ys will continue to have speakers you will not agree with. if that means josh doesn’t attend, then i’m sorry for both josh and us and all the other attendees, because everyone loses by his absence and withdrawel. if that means other don’t attend: bummer. bad for all of us. but not enough to homogenize our approach. plenty of other youth ministry events out there that look that way.

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